RPG Soapbox

Bait nearly all chat programs give Admins the right to view PMs between players. Might as well quit RPing online if you don't want to deal with the possibility they might see a PM sent in the chat.

Digi does not. It says it does but that feature is broken. Vive la resistance! You are more than welcome to record logs. It just assures my avoidance of your site completely. I just resented the immediate assumption that because one doesn't like logs of their private conversations being taken one is automatically a cheater. That would be like me assuming that because you are taking logs you are a voyeur who gets off on viewing other people's private chat....and also you sell it to make loads of cash...unfair? Of course, just as completely unfair as assuming people who don't like it are cheaters.

This was entirely relevant to the chat reviews. You can't have all negative stuff removed to a separate game forum.

"I don't like that they record everything"
"We do because people cheat"
"That's not right...I won't play there"
"If you are going to talk about why you won't play here you should go to a different thread"


............Um no it is okay to talk about features of the game that you dislike in the review thread for that game.

The chat program, what you use, what you do and don't do are integral to your game.

Also just so you know that post felt very condescending and perhaps you didn't mean it that way but it came off as talking down to me.

The desire to not be recorded randomly for whatever reason equates to guilt? Not even remotely. I'm guilty of no ethical or legal violations online, but I abhore the thought of the government logging and examining my every action. Why? Because it's none of their damned business. Likewise, there are certainly private conversations to be had in a chat environment that are none of your business. Do the Admins have the right to examine logs if something untoward occurs? Of course. The right and the obligation. Do the Admins have the right to dig through shit for vicarious pleasure? Sure. They own it, or are empowered to do so by the owners, but that doesn't make it right.



In the end, leveling premptive accusations of cheating in order to minimize the opinions of people who disagree with you (rest removed due to personal attack).



Equating snooping into PMs to healthcare is absurd. First off, HIPA ensures that patients have rights and means to monitor the process. Second off, it ensures that there's methods of punishing people who use privledged information for personal reasons. I'd like to see your Administrative guidelines for snooping, and know what options players have to combat abusive snooping by the Admins.



Actually, I believe there's legal precidents for denying responsibility for information found on your site. Craig's List and 4Chan are two sites I know of that deny legal responsibility for anything found on their sites based on the fact that they're merely providing a place for the accumulation of data. Thusfar, that has protected both sites from legal repercussions. So, really? No. Big Brothering logs isn't your only means of keeping the FBI from busting into your house. It's merely the method that allows you to justify snooping.


Again, a desire for privacy does not equate to being guilty of wrongdoing. A brief example, if you or another Admin plays in the venue and your reading the logs and PMs from Players who are plotting against your character- or your friend's characters- it's you who's cheating.




The above comes across as pendantic and assanine. Did you mean it that way? Maybe not. Regardless, that's how it reads. I recommend you contemplate rephrasing.
"You said something bad about my Chat, GTFO my thread!"
Not the sort of message an Admin should want to send.


Now, having said the above? What I've read previously in the thread makes me think that IR would be a decent place to play if/when I get back into the nWoD. Don't mistake me disagreeing with one thing you're doing and the methods you chose to defend that action as me saying your site has no value or worth.

Edited out personal attack. ~Star

They do play in their own venues.

As a follow up.

New site Rule - Required reading - Posted by InsidiousAdmin

It is now required that all IC PM's be tagged with the Venue specific tag just like rooms. Yes, that means (unfortunately) every line that is IC in a PM is required to have you put the venue tag first.

Quote:
Scion = scn
Changeling = ctl
Mage = mta
Vampire = vtr
Werewolf = wtf

So any IC whispers...any phone calls...any IC info that is shared via PM must have the tag. If you forget to put the tag on a line, copy and paste the statement into the PM again with the tag added to it.

Remember the rule about; if it's not in the logs, it didn't happen IC. So be sure you tag them!


Why the tags? because the ST's to each venue get every log associated with their venue emailed to them each day. Now they get all the PM's too. Not if there was an argument or issue, but for their reading pleasure.

That's a serious issue there.

The innocent have nothing to fear.

I wonder how I missed this discussion. I don't think I'd personally play anywhere where every single thing I say in private rooms, PMs and anything else is guaranteed to be scrutinized and read. I remember Vomica Noctis and being constantly confronted by Dark Rage about "inappropriate PMs" to my RL spouse and the staggering outrage I felt that after she realized it was that form of private correspondence that she kept reading regardless.
Is a chat required to supply a reasonable expectation of privacy? No, they're not required. But I wouldn't recommend (and would probably ward people away) from playing at a chat that actively works to violate your privacy thoroughly like that.


Postscript: The chat is tagged as 18+. How does any player, save those with voyeurism fetishes, feel comfortable RPing anything "adult" there, knowing good and well a score of people will be reading it?

Technically, you are incorrect. The IR chat is privately-funded and privately-run. as Bait pointed out, it is the owner's right to log conversations that occur there, no matter the medium. Any and all conversation taking place there is the owner's business should they choose to make it so.

IR doesn't hide the fact that everything is logged - there is nothing underhanded that I can see whatsoever. They make it clear they log, which means players have a choice - don't play there at all, or play there and keep truly private, personal conversations to an external IM program and accept the fact that everything else is being saved.

At this point, the subject's pretty much done, so let's not flog a dead horse, OK? Those of you who don't like the practice have stated such, and there's nothing left to be said.

Does the place still actively monitor all private rooms and PMs?

Do you need to ask? Of course they still do.

Damn. Then I'm still out. I was looking for a VtR game to play in, but not somewhere that feels the need to be Big Brother man.

Yeah, I do need to ask. Like Perris, that's the only thing keeping me from here.